Hi yall. Well, here goes, I'd like your input on a hand. I didn't keep the history so here are the details:
Playing on a $2-$4 NLHE 10seater cash game table. I'm in 6th position with $452 and get dealt QhQd. Dude UTG limps in. (I had been at the table for 30min or so and he was there all the time playing a lot of hands, something like 70% and almost never raised preflop even good raising hands like AQ-AK...the ones i saw anyhow).
Pos2 calls, then everyone folds and it's up to me. $14 in the pot and I wanna play QQ HU as much as possible and want the freakin Ax to get out, so I raise 4x to $16. Only the UTG calls and we're HU with now $42 in the pot.
FLOP is 10c-10s-7c
UTG insta-checks (he has $530 btw). I have to know where I'm at so I bet out just a little more than half the pot with $25. He insta-calls. So $92 in the pot.
So, lets see. Since he almost never raised preflop and that he called my preflop raise and now my 25$ bet, the range of hands I have to put him on is pretty wide. AA-KK-JJ-(AK-AQ-AJ suited or with the Ac)-AT of course-99-88-77-maybe KT-and to a lesser degree Axc, u never know.
TURN is the Js
He instachecks again :(....I feel like I'm getting trapped by then. But I still beat many of those hands inthe range. So I have to bet again and make sure it's big enough to make him fold a draw or pay too much to try it. So I bet $80. This time, he takes the whole timebank and min-raises me to $160. Hmm....is it a minraise to make me shove or a desperate attempt to make me fold?
Well, since I'm not quite sure yet, i didnt do either...I called the raise. So the pot is now $412.
RIVER is the 8c
Ouch, now that card is wayyyy bad. If he was drawing to the flush, he hit. If he had 99, he's got the straight. 88=boat as did the JJ on the turn. Don't think he could have the straight without having 99 however. A9-K9-T9-98 are all highly unlikely.
Well, the guy takes the full timebank again and shoves allin for $345 and has me covered!!!
I have $251 left. So odds wise, it costs me $251 to get $663 so 2.6 to 1.
I went in the tank and figured, even though i had put $201 in there already that there were just too many ways for him to beat me. Also, I'm not too keen on the "pot committed" idea. I mean, if you're beat, you're beat. A lot of pros also are conflicted with the concept. Phil and Gus being 2 of them. Anyways...I waited till the last second and folded. He obv didnt show.
Been thinking about that one all day. Not sure if that was the right move. Don't think there's a definate answer here but I'd love to hear your thoughts. Maybe shed some light on aspects I didnt consider.
Thanks
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3 comments:
Hi franky, good to see you.
im a donkey but heres my opinion.
i dont know where you are in this hand but i dont se how he can make the min raise on the turn with 3 overs and only a gutshot.
Id take that possibilty out of the equation, the flush is a possible,
if he's a serial limper he coulda limped with suited connectors or something utg and since you only called his min raise on the turn he didnt figure you for the boat.
Even so, he may have also seen you play on the turn as weak and decided then and there to shove the river if any scare card hit.
as i said i am a DONKEY and just thought id put a few thoughts out there for you.
personally i think youd be better off listening to the better players among us but id rather make a bad fold than a bad call. but that is a toughy, i think hes got nuts or nothing
Not enough info. Does he shove with the nuts or does he value bet? Is he a pure calling station or does he see himself as a good post flop player so he sees a LOT of flops. Can he think on multiple levels? If so, what is your table image? Is he playing the cards or the player?
People are not respecting continuation bets at all in the cash games I've played recetnly and min-raises are now value bets - especially from calling stations.
Since the raise came on the Js, it is likely that he had 89, XcJc, a ten, KsQs or along something those lines. JJ and 77 are not out the the realm of possiblity. Then there is the ever popular overpair that few people at this level can fold - even with that board.
IMO you showed weakness by only betting 1/2 pot on flop. Most would think that you would slow play trip tens and 77. So, you were likely just making a continuation bet w/ AK or a pocket pair. If he can think multi-level, then his min-raise may have been a question or a pseudo bluff w/ a flush draw. Your flat call makes him think two overs or perhaps a flush draw.
If he is a pure calling station, then he either out flopped you or caught the turn. Calling stations don't bet or raise unless they have the goods. But, if he is just a guy who likes to see a lot of hands because he thinks he's better than everyone post flop, there is no telling what he had.
It's impossible to know.
My guess is he prob had something like AT or JT (or QT?) and after hitting a set on the flop and following your flop bet, figured u for a pocket pair or overs so wasnt to worried about the board.
Its also possible he had premium pockets and was slow playing them, maybe drunk, with no regard to the board!
You get a lotta "gamblers" in cash games who have $$$$$ and play crap but can afford it.
Folding seems right given what you know.
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